Can I apply for "Software Engineer" jobs without being an engineer? [closed]

Question

I am from a country in which the use of the word "Engineer" or "Engineering" is strictly regulated by legislation. This means that you must hold a degree in Engineering AND passed an exam to join the Engineers' professional association to use the title. I am a bit confused about the term "Software Engineer" as used in the industry, globally.

I read the wikipedia page on Software Engineer and the linked section of the page about the term usage, which offer an in-depth discussion. However my question is somehow more concrete.

Knowing that I don't hold a degree in engineering (yet, I like to think I produce funcional, well designed software!), when I see an opening for a software engineer from an international company, would it be appropriate for me to apply? Should I somehow emphasise that I don't hold a degree in engineering?

Answer 1

You are not going to waste anyone's time. Go for it. And you don't even need to emphasize that you don't hold a degree in engineering. Your CV (Resume) will obviously state what degrees you hold, and by inference what you do not hold. Only avoid companies that specifically state that they are only looking for accredited etc etc.

EDIT: The reason for this is that computer software development has been, still is, and will continue for a while to be an explosively growing, industry-led field, where 99% of "what the job is all about" is learned at the workplace, not at the University. The University is good for learning to specialize on a specific subject by means of a Master's or higher degree, and when a company is looking for a specialist they usually state this requirement. This comes from someone who holds a "Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science" and who nevertheless learned that what he is doing is in fact a science outside of the University. (Initially in highschool, when I learned what binary search is, and later at work, when I learned what OOP was. At the University they had not heard of OOP yet.)

Answer 2

In the US, it's "software engineer" is a common job title that doesn't really mean anything different from "programmer/analyst" or "software developer". It depends what the company in question wants to give out as a title.

For example, at one place I was employed, almost everyone had a job title that ended either with "engineer" or "technician". The HR manager in my location was called a "Lead Human Resources Engineer".

Answer 3

Some of the best software developers I have worked with didn't have a degree related to software development. Myself, I have a degree in IT but still pursued a career in software development.

Professional engineering associations tend to form when a particular technical field has near universal and unchallenged standards and accepted practices AND when their is a relatively large amount of qualified labor as compared to demand for such professionals. This happens in relatively mature engineering fields.

Software engineering isn't quite there (yet) but slowly getting closer. The problem is that if you take a random sampling of software engineers today and ask them a simple question, like "Design a CRUD web based application for tracking __" and you will get wildly different designs. Some will be good designs, some will be poor, some will unique, some will be boilerplate. Hell if you get James Gosling, Martin Fowler and several other great minds into a room they would probably have more arguments and differences than what they agree on.

Further consider that from a business and societal perspective we tend to be okay with poor quality software sometimes (depending on availability of alternatives and price). Compare that to business and societal perspective on the quality we expect from a bridge. Nobody accepts a poor quality bridge, and engineers designing that bridge do so under strict guidelines and accepted standards.

In my opinion it will get to the point someday where the cost and value of 90% of software available today will align more properly, and what will remain will be large, expensive and highly standards driven projects with highly accepted and formalized methods to approach design problems. Only at this point will the need for qualified engineers in a professional association be greater than the need for a bright wiz kid who can do the job as well with less formality. I don't see this happening for at least another 15-20 years however.

Answer 4

Normally in the job advertisements it is mentioned whether a degree is required or not. Decide whether to apply or not, depending on this. If it is not mentioned, then there are chances that the job requires more of an experience or attitude than degree. In that case, in my opinion you can apply and take your chances. Anyways when the recruiters see that you do not have any degree in your resume, they will decide whether to select you.

Answer 5

At least in the US, the key is that you need to be able to do what's described in the description. The way you got those skills less important.

HOWEVER- there are companies that do screening where it helps tremendously for an entry level position if you have:

• B.S. or B.A. Degree in something
• Preferably a B.S. in something vaguely related to computers - like Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, Computer Science, IT, Math, or something similar. Even EEs, Physics, or any other science is likely to get you more opportunities than, say, Linguistics or Fine Arts.
• A good GPA

This largely has to do with the company's screening process and the number of applicants they have. The less formal the company, by and large, the less restrictive the screening.

In the end, I have little doubt that you can get a job doing "software engineering" provided you can do what they say in the description and you can make that case through your resume and the interview. The definition of "engineering" as something highly legislated and baselined is unique enough to the given country that it won't particularly translate internationally. Some professional certifications might - it all depends on the certification and the specialty it demonstrates.

Resumes

As far as a resume goes, I'd recommend highlighting what you CAN do. Not what you haven't done. A classic resume format will include: - your goals - your education - your technical skills - your previous work experience

Leaving off a critical element is a fine way of demonstrating you don't have that element, you don't have to go above and beyond to say what you don't do. For example, if you have some number of years of college completed, but have not matriculated, mention where you went to school and how many years, and some key coursework. The lack of graduation date (or expected graduation date) is a direct tip off that you have not yet finished school.

When speaking to skills you gained through independent personal projects, you have two options, IMO, depending on how much space you have available.

• for a younger candidate, I'd list the skills acquirer in a skills section - for example programming languages, methodologies, development tools, etc. And then list the personal project under "experience" with an annotation that this was a personal project. I met a candidate that had implemented dynamic web server code this way, on a game site, and when he provided the link, I went above and beyond to play with his site and get a sense of what he'd done - it was a real win for our discussion.

• for a more experienced candidate with an experience list a mile long - just stick the new skills in the "skills/knowledge section" unless the project is unbelievable and available for review. For example, if you coded a big part of Hibernate - put that on there!!! but if you made a web server for your bingo group... I'm probably more interested in the big company that employed you for the last 3 years...

My general philosophy is - it's your job to show the company why they SHOULD hire you. It's their job to vet whether or not you are the best fit for the position and they will do that by taking you into account in comparison to their larger pool of candidates. If every other applicant has a formal degree and professional certification, then you may be out of luck... but if not, you may have the perfect skill set.

Answer 6

Do not get caught up in titles. If they did mean something to that company, they just will ignore your CV/Resume. You should apply to every single job that you feel you will enjoy. Do not limit yourself at the starting gate. At the worst case it wastes thirty minutes of your time.

Answer 7

Software engineer isn't a real engineer. There has been a movement to formalize software development into an engineering position, however it has hit a lot of bumps. Software development is still too new and developing too rapidly to be properly defined into an engineering profession, like a mechanical or electrical engineer. There is also some debate as to whether software development actually fits in the same definition of engineer or if it would even be beneficial to make software development an engineering process.