Timeline for Should I give the answer to a failed interview coding exercise?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
18 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Nov 16, 2012 at 18:48 | comment | added | GHP | What you call a "waste other people's time", I call "demonstrating your ability". Rarely did a time limit for an interview become a factor for me as an interviewer. You've got an hour to convince me you don't suck, so what do you want to show? If its jam-packed, then maybe yeah, don't harp on a missed question, but if you have 2-5min to spare, asking to see the correct answer demonstrates SOME kind of curiosity, as opposed to "giving up", because that's EXACTLY how I viewed people who didn't ask for the answer after failing a question. | |
| Nov 16, 2012 at 16:34 | comment | added | Aeo | 'So no, you shouldn't "give" the answer, but you should expect to have the candidate insist on hearing the right answer after they fail. If they don't, its a huge red flag in my book.' See, I read that as "If they don't have complete disrespect for my time, it's a huge red flag". Some people follow the idea that you don't waste other people's time. I wouldn't ask because I was there for an interview, not to learn methodologies. Is this wrong? Maybe. But to find out that respecting other people and their time is a red flag? Concerning. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:51 | comment | added | Engineer2021 | @Graham: I guess. I am working on some WSDL and other GWT stuff.. no math :) But when I have done geospatial work, heavy on the math.. so it all depends. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:49 | comment | added | GHP | @0A0D, the "math" involved in FizzBuzz is simply checking if a given variable is divisible by 3 and/or by 5. That level of math is present in virtually every app you write. Even "business devs" like me who just implement the same kind of projects over and over use this level of math. GlenH7, I'm not even sure if using recursion in FizzBuzz would impress me or scare me off.... Certainly seems like dangerous overkill. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:43 | comment | added | Andres F. | It's a sad day when people on programmers.SE are considering the modulus operator "advanced math" or "not necessary for their jobs". Next up: "I don't need to know division or multiplication, I never used them in my web app". | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:31 | comment | added | Engineer2021 | @GlenH7: If the job requires math, then test for it.. otherwise, give a problem that tests the skills you are looking for.. I am just an outsider looking in, but if you gave an unfair test to someone who has never been exposed to this stuff as a practical programmer, then its not really his fault. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:26 | comment | added | user53019 | @JamesP.Wright - FWIW, I'm fine with the self-taught programmer as well. Essentially, that's what I am since my engineer background didn't overlap with formal programming. The candidate's solution tried to use recursion and missed boundary conditions. I strongly hinted at that mistake and he didn't see the error in his logic. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:23 | comment | added | user53019 | @JamesP.Wright - full disclosure, I (now) work for an Engineering firm. So, yes, Math and complex algorithms are kind of important. As Graham points out, there are other ways to solve without using modulus, and I would have given full credit for those attempts. Heck, he could have even built an array with all the multiples and checked against that. My problem was that he didn't even get close to coming up with a workable approach, which is why I asked what I should have done or told the candidate afterwards. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:21 | comment | added | James P. Wright | @Graham : I agree. I'd say the key in this situation isn't that the "senior dev" candidate couldn't do FizzBuzz, it's that he could even begin to work it out enough to satisfy GlenH7. I guess it just bothers me that so many people out there who have gone through college for a CS degree are starting to dominate the field and things they consider "the basics" are things a self-taught developer like me haven't used in over a decade of programming. It really feels like we need to make a distinction between "business developers" (folks who make CRUD apps) and "lower level" devs | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:16 | comment | added | GHP | FizzBuzz does not require the modulus operator. It simply requires code to check and see if an int is evenly divisible by 3 or 5. This could be accomplished by casting to double and looking for results with decimal values. I wouldn't really fault a programmer for not knowing the modulus operator in a given language, as I can't recall a case where I've used it recently at all, but I CAN fault a dev for not even trying to think through the problem somehow. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:16 | comment | added | Engineer2021 | @JamesP.Wright: That's because programming has been dominated lately by computer scientists and software engineers who typically will have a background in Math and Science, so they will be exposed to these sorts of things. For the reference, you can implement modulo like this: x-((x/n)*n) | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:14 | comment | added | James P. Wright | Now, if the job this person was interviewing for required them to do math and complex algorithms, that's fine...FizzBuzz away. However, I've had interviews for "senior" developer positions that were absolutely nothing more than "Gather requirements from client, make a website that pulls data from a database and saves data to a database." and they asked questions like FizzBuzz because someone told them it was important. THAT is where I get annoyed with it. Ask questions that are relevant to the position you are hiring for, not what you THINK makes someone a senior developer. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 16:12 | comment | added | James P. Wright | @GlenH7 - See that's the reason I always have a problem with FizzBuzz. I'm bad at math. I didn't know the Modulus operator until a few years ago when FizzBuzz became all the "buzz". I had absolutely no clue how to complete FizzBuzz, but I'd been programming for over 10 years. Absolutely nothing in my entire career had ever needed to use anything like it. Once I knew about modulus I figured out how to do FizzBuzz in 5 minutes, but my lack of ability to do it didn't really say what I COULD do, but what I already knew how to do. (continued in next comment...) | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 15:43 | comment | added | user53019 | @JamesP.Wright - I agree to some degree, and going into the interview, I was a bit embarrassed to use that as the lead coding question. It was supposed to be ridiculously easy, and I even prefaced it with a warning to not over-read the question. I had a follow-up that was also supposed to be easy, and then I had a third that would allow him to demonstrate higher level development / design skills. We never got to the third question.... | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 15:34 | comment | added | James P. Wright | I get really opinionated about FizzBuzz...but this is the right answer. If the candidate doesn't ask for the answer, don't give it to them. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 15:18 | comment | added | user53019 | I would have given him credit for trying to come up with something instead of the modulus operator, but he didn't even get to that point. I think you have a good point with focusing on his failure to ask for the answer. Your observation is in line with some of the other challenges that came up during the interview. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 14:18 | comment | added | Engineer2021 | Why? You can just Google the answer later. FizzBuzz is pretty popular. I'd be honestly concerned if someone does not know modulus division. | |
| Nov 14, 2012 at 13:50 | history | answered | GHP | CC BY-SA 3.0 |